Tuesday, October 4, 2011

Can Anyone Translate?

So Margaret Kramer (aka Margaretha Kremer) really was born on 31 October 1866 in Consdorf, Echternach, Luxembourg.  Seventy-eight years after her birth, her son reported the correct birth date for her death certificate.  The other information he provided was also correct, as far as what Margaret herself provided for her marriage license in 1888.  Her birth date, place, and father have now been confirmed by a birth record I just located on FamilySearch (Luxembourg Civil Registration, 1793-1923 > Consdorf > Baptêmes 1790-1793 -- CONSDORF: Naissances 1798-1880).

Below are two images.  The first one is the a page from the index for the year 1866, which lists Margaretha Kremer with a birth date of 31 October.  The second image is the actual record, which indicates her father’s name of Johann.  The problem is, I have no idea what the rest of this record says…can anyone translate the record?

The original image can be viewed and enlarged here.

Would love some help on this.  I must admit, it’s my first successful “across the pond” search (hey, one out of five ain’t bad)!  Now if I only could figure out if Peter Kremer, who witnessed Margaret’s marriage, is somehow related…



Unknown said...

Julie this looks like old German but may be Latin. Go to Family Search or Ancestry learning guide areas they will have common genealogy words for both those languages. That will give you an idea. It worked for me with German church records.

Genealady said...

Ok, major, major help from my 'Deciphering Handwriting in German Documents' by Roger P. Minert here - pp. 55-56 especially. It confirmed by own attempt of a translation and helped me read the handwriting better. So here's what this says, as far as I can tell - not a guarantee! If I am unsure of the translation I will put a ? after it.

In the year one thousand eight hundred sixty six, on the 10th(?) of November at 8am, there appeared before me, Mathias Leonardy, the mayor and officer of the civil registry of the town of Consdorff, in the county of Echternach, of the Duchy of Luxemberg, Johann Kremer, 42(?) year old carpenter living in Consdorff, and he showed me a female child conceived by him and his wife Catharina (Aheres/Eheres? - really not sure), age 42(?). The child was born ___ two days ago (?) at __ (?) time in the afternoon and the father declared his intention to name the child Margaretha.

This declaration was made in the presence of ___ Michel Bausch, 50 (51?) years of age, carpenter residing in Breinwalder(?) and Nicolas Weis, 49 (?) years of age, ___ living in Consdorff, two witnesses who added their signatures below after this record was read aloud. The father did not have to sign ____ (reason unclear).

Signature, signature, signature.

Hope that helps you some! Sorry I couldn't do better!

Ralph said...

Hello Julie, it is only German, no latin.
Here is my transcription:
Nr.38 Kremer Margaretha.
Im Jahre tausend achthundert sechs und sechsig, den zweiten
des Monats November um acht Uhr Vormittags ist for Uns
Mathias Leonardy, Bürgermeister Beamten des Zivilstandes
der Gemeinde Consdorff, I'm Kanton Echternach, Großher-
zogtum Luxemburg, erschienen Johann Kremer
alt vierzig zwei Jahre Zimmermann
wohnhaft zu Consdorf, welcher Uns ein Kind weiblichen
Geschlechts vorgestellt so von ihm deklariert erzeugt un von seiner
Ehefrau Katharina …., alt vierzig zwei Jahre, ohne Beruf
vorgestern um vier Uhr des Nachmittags geboren wurde

und welchem er den Vornamen Margaretha
geben zu wollen erklärt hat.
Diese Erklärung und Vorstellung sind geschehen in Gegenwart des Michel
, alt fünfzig ein Jahre Zimmermann
wohnhaft zu Breidweiler und des Nicolas
, alt vierzig neun Jahre Schreibermeister
wohnhaft zu Consdorff und haben
beide Zeugen die gegenwärtige Urkunde,
nachdem sie ihnen vorgelesen worden, mit Uns unterschrieben. Deklarant hat
erklärt mit Schreiben zu wissen; worüber

M Bausch N.Weis M. Leonardy

Brian Zalewski said...

Though, you may need a "Old German" letter guide. I've had luck using Google Translate to at least find the basic meanings of old documents.

Unknown said...

Thanks everyone. I did try to use Google Translate and Babelfish, but didn't have much luck, partially because of the script. And unfortunately my handwriting reference book (that contains old German script) is packed in a box (we move next week). I got the gist of it simply from knowing what the record was (civil birth registration), but beyond that, I had no clue. Thanks so very much to Genealady for the translation, a lot of it makes sense now and I now know what role the other people played, not to mention the occupation of the father. And many thanks to Ralph for a transcription, this will help me with deciphering German script in the future.

Genealady said...

Happy I could assist a bit, Julie!

That transcription is fabulous, Ralph. Helps me see where I went wrong. Should be 2nd of November (duh, that matches the birthdate, what was I thinking!), and the ages look pretty correct for them all - 42, 42, 51 and 49.

Here's a wikipedia article for Nicolas Weis' job, which can be translated: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schreibmeister Interesting stuff! Makes me wish I had roots 'over the pond'!

Ralph said...

Hello Julie,
looking again at the image and Genealady's translation I found a mistake on my transcription. The last sentence should be:
Deklarant hat
erklärt nicht Schreiben zu wissen;

Here are my additions to Genealady's translation:
...on the second of November...
...42 year old carpenter...
...Catharina ..., 42 years old...
...the child was born yesterday at 4pm..
...Michel Bausch, 51 years old..
...residing in Breidweiler...
...Nicolas Weis, 49 years old, clerk, living in Consdorff...
...The Father (haven't found a translation for the german word "Deklarant") declared not knowing to write; ...

Unknown said...

What a fantastic collaborative effort you guys! You have both made my week! And I've also found several more records, including her husband and husband's brother, both of which also match the data I previously had. Now I'm going through year by year looking for their siblings. I'll tackle the Kramer clan as well (I had come across several "possibilities" before I found hers, now I have to go back and record them).

Now, if only I could find my mother's German folks!

Unknown said...

Awesome! Glad you got it transcribed. Genealady, Roger Minert is great I've attended his workshops, but never bought his book, I will now!

Genealady said...

Wow, Jenna, I would love to attend one of his workshops! The book is just great, though - it came highly recommended and it's lived up to it, certainly!

And it was a good learning experience for me, Julie, so it was my pleasure - I learned a lot from Ralph's transcription.

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